you've made a fool of everyone

So if Susan Atkins is really about to die why not just let her out. Not as a reward or even a show of sympathy. How about doing it for justice? She's a killer and a brutal one at that. She got what she deserved. But think about it, at this point why keep her in jail where taxpayers are spending more in a week then most of them make working! I mean, if I though it would be some kind of joyous occasion where she'd get out and celebrate and live a nice comfortable life I'd be against it. But I don't. Yes, she's probably aware enough to be able to appreciate the fact that she's free. But she's not healthy enough to enjoy it. I don't live in CA but seriously with the economy as bad as it is. People losing jobs and health care daily, why should all this money be spent to keep her alive. There's gotta be some big changes in this country.

whatever happened to?

The movie that was supposed to come out "The Devil Exists" I though it was going to be out a few years ago and was going to be playing in big theaters.

Bobbys book? It was said he was writing one, and I believe he said he was in a few interviews or on his website.

Gypsys book?

git on home little children

Atkins- Yes, I do feel sorry for her, as I would almost anyone who lost a leg and is dying a (most likely) slow painful death. And no, I don't think she poses a threat to anyone at all. However, punishment is what it is and she killed and therefore deserves (as much as anyone who did what she did) to stay in prison til the bitter end. Let's face it, if she's really born again she should be psyched cause she's on her way to an eternity of glory. 

Grogan- Anyone know if he's still in that band or did he get the boot? I wonder (again, does anyone know?) if his bandmates knew his past. I was recently reading the post about it on mansonfamilytoday and agree that he really got off easy. Why were others tried and convicted of crimes that he skated on? Even that short little interview on brets site kinda shows his sneaky side.  

I just read Desert Shadows again and decided it's also a good book. There seems to be some misinformation, but what book on the case doesnt? But it also has some pretty good stuff too. Just kinda showing some of the Death Valley days in a different light. He also mentions that when Sue Bartell was caught she had a list on her of 40 names and phone numbers. Wouldn't you love to see that list? What became of her? Did Nelson track her down, I forget. 

election day

so tomorrow is election day. Ever since I went to Europe and met and talked with lots of people I really feel like we (as americans) owe the world to vote. Not only are there many people who dont have the right and many have fought and died for that right, but America (for now) has a lot to do with the politics of many countries. I feel embarassed that with that much power almost half of us don't vote. Don't get me wrong, i think the system is flawed and corrupt. But just if nothing else to show the rest of the world we care about them we should get out and vote. I also think it's a real shame that we pretty much have only two people to choose from (i know technically there's more) there really should be more of a choice. 

dinner time! (veggi chix patties and cous cous)

typo's and all,

Andy

sunday boring sunday

well at least i know someone has read my blog. Here's the answer to your question (i'm posting it so maybe others that wonder can use the info)

If you're someone who's really "into" the Manson case the sites you need to follow/read are, in no particular order:

charliemanson.com this is the one often referred to as "Turners site" run by Mark Turner.

mansonfamilytoday.info this is the one referred to as Bretts site (or maybe there's one T.)

truthontatelabianca.com i think this one is run by someone who goes by the name Cat.

tatelabianca.blogspot.com This is the one referred to as the col's site, run by Col Scott.

it'll take months to really, really research these sites and read all there is on them. And when you're done you'll be even more confused then you might be now.

As for what books to read, well, I read anything I can get my hands on.  I'd say the "important" ones are; 

Helter Skelter, The Family, Will You Die For Me, Child Of Satan Child Of God, Manson: Behind The Scenes, My Life With Charles Manson.  Also but not quite as important would be Manson In His Own Words, The Manson File and The Shadow Over Santa Susanna. Now, the hard part (aside from finding some of these books for under $75 or so) is trying to decide what to believe in these books, because there are a hell of a lot of conflicting stories. 

Typo's and all,

Andy

things are too quiet

man oh manson, things are quiet around mansonland. No updates on the Col's blog and about one sentence on charliemanson.com in the last few weeks. Im still waiting and hoping to join the team at tatelabianca. Ive been reading it since the beginning and there's so much i'd like to add. I've just about caught up now so hopefully it'll get back in full swing soon. 

Right now im at Jan 08 and there's a lot of talk about the Labianca murders being a hit set up by the mafia. As much as there's a lot of suspicious goings on that can kind of point in that direction, I think it just doesnt seem possible. The mafia in the late 60's wasn't the mafia today where everyone who gets busted instantly flips and there's tons of loose ends left around. I think it was a much tighter organization. IF by some crazy reason they hired out Manson, who in turn sent Tex and company to do the dirty work, Manson without doubt would have been killed once the murders became front page news. There's just no way that they would have left him out there with full trust that he wouldn't rat. In the long run, he did/does stand strong as there's probably a lot of info that would be embarrassing /incriminating to others that he never gave up. But would the mafia have taken that chance? No way! They've killed their own to keep info from getting out. How would they let some psycho pseudo hippy go about his business?!

me, myself and manson

i created this blog pretty much to be able to post on the official tate labianca blog run by col scott. Ive read it on and off (i was without a computer for a while) since almost the beginning. Recently I've gone back and started from the beginning. So much interesting stuff. Not to sound like a kiss ass here because yes, im also a big fan of charliemanson.com. Probably the best Manson site out there..although manson family today is definite competition. Bottom line really is that I posted on Marks message boards for years and he was always cool to me on the boards and when we spoke through emails (although it has been a while since I've heard from him.) Also he's had some VERY interesting people on his boards including several members of the former family (unlike the many ruth ann imposters) At one point he had Barbara Hoyt, although not an "original member" no one can deny she was around for the heyday of the family. Living at the ranch with all the key players. Also jennifer Gentry, who, although came along after the murders still was around before the family really broke apart. And it was cool to step away from the case a bit and hear just about everyday life at Spahn Ranch.  

I've pretty much read almost every book about the case except 5 To Die, and until recently Paul Watkins book but thanks to Col Scotts blog ive now read that too. Oh yea, i also never read Bill Nelsons first book, the one about Tex. Im sure theres a couple of others, but not many. I'm really hoping Gypsy comes out with her much talked about book, or Barbara Hoyt. Or wouldnt it be a blast if Grogan wrote one? He served his time so cant be arrested again for the murder of Shea. I dont know if he'd be able to discuss going back to the Tate house the night of the murders. 

I got into the case when i was about 18 and read Helter Skelter and then the family. At the time i was into the whole hippy thing and for some reason the whole hippy-killer thing really freaked me out. (BTW since then ive pretty much grown to hate hippies, not the original ones but 80's hippies? c'mon!) Then i read The Family and started to wonder what ever happened to all the members of the family. It wasnt til years later that i found Nelsons second book and for someone like me it was just perfect, giving updates to a lot of family members and such. I also then checked out his website. i was still new to the internet and never really thought to look up manson related stuff. but anyhow, his site also blew me away. From there i found plenty of other sites and here i am today. Am i an expert on the case? Far from it. But like Col Scott says I've probably forgot more about this case then most people will ever know.  

My take on the motives? Well, that changes. But overall i dont believe the whole helter skelter thing. I do believe it played some small part of things, maybe more for the girls then the men. I think drugs and robbery played a much bigger part at least at the Tate house. I also believe they didnt think Sharon Tate would be there. I do believe totally that Manson and several members went to the Tate house that night after the murders and i believe that there is evidence to prove that. As for the Labianca murders, even more confusing. A mafia hit? To me it seems unlikely but who knows? If you believe Paul Watkins in his book, it sound more possible. Add that to the fact of Mansons friendships with mobsters in jail and it looks even more possible. I just think at that time the mafia was was totally different then it is now. Why hire some hippy commune (or should i say slippy commune?) to do something that serious. If that was the case i think the mob would have then taken out Manson and anyone else who knew they were behind it once it became front page news. Can I  offer a better motive? No. But it is what it is. 

Now for my opinions on the jailed (and some of the non jailed) members of the family. 

Manson- Does he belong in jail? Probably, but i do think he was kind of railroaded to get there. Do i really believe he likes it there? Hell no! I think he's adapted to it and maybe in some way was/is used to it, but i dont think he wants to be there. I do often wonder though why he wasnt back in jail before the murders. He had several other ex cons stay with the family at various times. Isnt that alone a reason he could've been sent to jail? Banging underage girls, surrounded by drugs and using drugs. I mean peoples paroles have been reversed for less.  But i gotta say after seeing so many interviews, he really comes off as someone who mustve been a panic to hang with sometimes. His interview with Jeraldo, and Charles manson superstar are two of my favorites. 

Atkins- i just dont trust born again christians, ever notice how many ex cult members become born again? weak minded, self rightous, blah. Now that she has one leg and a limited time left to life i guess theres a small part of me that feels sorry for her.

Tex- let him rot. 

Bruce Davis- i really think he is still hiding things. i mean we all know all hes guilty of is pretty much giving Shea a paper cut. But seriously i think hes another bullshit artist

Van Houten- Although i respect her not pretending to be born again, i think she still is a bullshit artist who doesnt own up to her crimes. For years it looked like she might get out but im not so sure of that anymore.

Pat- Well, here we go...this is the one person who i really do believe feels remorse. Not cause she got caught but i believe she's for real. She owns up to what she did, doesnt hide behind christ. and although part of her blames Manson, she doesnt hide behind that. Unfortunately though her participation was so extreme that she's probably where she belongs. I also dont think she was quite as ugly as has been stated. Theres some pics of her where she looks kind of cute. And again, depending who you believe Manson wasnt the only one who banged her and the whole hairy thing seems debatable too. 

Steve Grogan- Wow, isnt it wild that hes a free man. nothin in this case has blown me away recently like the update on him from Brets site. For some reason he was one of the members im most interested in. If i could meet one member of the old family to interview it would be him. 

Gypsy- i think she is a total bullshit artist. Also I think back in the day she was hot. i saw a lot of of comments written by people who no one knows what they look like about how ugly she was but like i said please put up your pictures and let the public decide. SEe the scene in Inside The Manson Gang when she showers or when she's dancing wildly out in the field. 

Ella Jo Bailey- From the very few pictures ive seen looks like one of the hotter members of the family. 

Anyhow im bored of writing

typo's and all,

Andy